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Sturmer's avatar

Sorry, but I will! Not sure why loose more ships not working for you.

An effective way to gain experience in gaming quickly is by losing a ship, combined with some retrospective analysis (understanding why it happened, what you could do differently next time, etc.).

The more you lose, the more resilient you become to the adrenaline rush of combat, leading to more thoughtful reactions during encounters. This also increases your experience in handling different situations. You can't get it by watching youtube or twich, as you need to train YOUR body to that stress.

What most don't realize is that you're not just losing ships (ISK), you're also losing TIME! As you mentioned, there's a setback in your greater plan – if you were traveling somewhere, now you're basically back to square one and need to repeat the journey.

Then there's the preparation time; not everyone keeps fully-fitted ships as replacements. Even if you're killed within your home region, recovery time could be about 30 minutes wasted, which in ISK/hours could be equivalent to a loss of 500-700 million. Therefore, losing even a shuttle 40 jumps away could result in up to 1 billion in potential damage.

If you're looking to learn PvP, I suggest bringing an alt with an Orca or similar, filled with Stabbers/Rifters, so your recovery time is just a few minutes. This way, you could have an evening with 15 losses, lots of fun, gain huge experience, and incur almost no cost. I mean one successful 4/10 DED complex (which is 5 min to blitz?) can fund you 20-30 cruisers including fittings to burn.

Regarding playing as an alpha, I'm not sure why you're limiting yourself. There are plenty of high-sec activities that can net you 7-15 billion ISK/month without too much pressure if you play 1-3 hours a day. Even fully AFK mining with an Orca can cover a monthly subscription. Or you can follow the Oz guides and just trade that takes 5 min a day, or less if you update your orders once a week.

As for my emotions - I'm at the stage when I don't care. I lose ships very rarely because I do a lot of preparations and pick my targets well. So the moment I got caught unguard, the setup paid itself x10 times already.

A

Sorry, but I will!

I asked not for that... -.-

An effective way to gain experience in gaming quickly is by losing a ship, combined with some retrospective analysis (understanding why it happened, what you could do differently next time, etc.).

Yes, the retrospective is something that I have missed since Alexylva Paradox and I never found one soul that sat and went over my losses with me, patting my back and looking into how things could have been done differently.

With AP, they did gave me feedback, like once I lost a blackbird because instead of sitting on the wh, I sat at like 200km because "I could warp out" I didn't warp out in time obviously, but talking about it afterward with more experienced pilots, my error was clear. I never sat 200km from the hole again unless I was keeping an eye on it for specific reasons XD

People always told me "just get in another ship and move your ass" which keeps me stuck on a point I often had which is "what do I gain if I keep dying without being able to do anything? Without being able to act? Without being able to understand what happened?" the reply was "just loose more ships" but it's a snake biting its tail.

What most don’t realize is that you’re not just losing ships (ISK), you’re also losing TIME!

I time box things, I have a myriad of things to do. Time is essence and that's why I couldn't find fun to just die. I spent an hour dying , I made others happy... and I was completely unhappy and unsatisfied. See point above on missing a retrospective, see comment below on FW experience.

Regarding playing as an alpha

If I start having to grid the game, because I know I have to play 1 to 3 hours otherwise I won't plex, otherwise I'll be behind, so I have to do more and more... it's where the fun disappears and the stress begins. And that's not healthy for me. It happened before. Aside that I don't have the physical time to allocate 1 to 3 hours only for eve.

For the trading, I did tried the Oz thing. I couldn't make it work in Jita, I kept loosing money, and the market is just too fast. It worked for a few months in Rens, I think it was, but then I think the market changed? I don't know, I couldn't make it work anymore. You go back... at least a pair of years ago so the market could have changed again.

As for my emotions

Yes, that's what I heard from people pvping a lot. It doesn't matter anymore.

EveOnlineTutorials's avatar

Within Eve Online the ability to lose ships and or get blown up by random people is plenty. This being said, as a player of Eve Online since beta, my advice to any new player who asked would be not to get attached to your ships.

This is not to be "heartless" or nasty, but, eventually, every ship you have, will at some point, go bang.

I would say that to harden yourself to ship loss, make an FW alt and loose tons fo frigates and destroyers and you will find it easier to accept ship loss.

A

I tried FW... it went terribly xD I died without even understand why I died, I died without being able to decide whatever to engage or go away, I died without being able to even say I tried fighting back. The support from the militias was inexistent and in end, I simply died.

What I learned? That I died.

I knew of my mortality already, thank you XD

Sturmer's avatar

How to get a good retrospective/postmortem review:

  1. Combat logs (on your PC), contain all key events and there are tools to help you analyze them.

  2. Fly with tactical overlay ON for postmortem review in the next step.

  3. Record a video (or stream it somewhere to now clog your disc with video files) and then review the death moment, watch the overview, watch the combat messages, and look at the tactical layout.

If things happen too rapidly, by those 3 hints above you can later go whatever slow-mo you desire, watching the event frame by frame.

If there are experienced pilots around, you can crop the moment and show it to them, and ask questions about what can be done differently.

Now regarding Blackbird.., you will be primary, try to select something that people tend to ignore - Drakes, Mallers, Punishers, Navy Augoror. If you look dangerous - you die first.

Fun fact, for a while I've been flying glass cannon 1800 DPS Drake, with zero tank and people still been ignoring me, which allowed me to apply impressive DPS in close quarters. But then enemies found out that, i flipped a coin and dedicated every single slot to tanking, soaking enormous amounts of damage and stalling the fight.

A

On 1. there are combat logs? Where they are, in the Gamelogs folder?

On 2. that I do already.

So I can bring a Drake? xD

The blackbird was an example of a good retrospective and a lesson very well learned. I haven't flown one in years and I don't plan to start anew.

Picking up what ship to use is another matter in itself. BCs are big, bulky and expensive. Frigs are cheap but they last so little... that I'm dead already: I saw in FW with T1 frigs, when the Omega guy with the T2 frig entered the field, the time I aligned I was already podded, no single shot fired on my side. Some people say how cruisers and destroyers are actually better than frigs as you survive a bit longer and let you see more of the fight before being podded, which is not wrong.

Sturmer's avatar

Yup, all logs are located in

C:\Users\USER_NAME\Documents\EVE\logs\Gamelogs

And if you know PowerBi, SPSS, Metabase or similar BI software, can can visualize that data and learn many interesting insights, especially for PVE, where you can analyze actual incoming and outgoing damage, not simulated from pyfa.

Dessy 100% worse than a let's say Puisher. They are slow, they have x2 signature meaning are well-tracked by medium-sized weapons, and their EHP is not that big compared to a Frigate. But they carry more DPS = bigger threat, which means...? Yup, primary =)

FUN INC's avatar

Am not going to say first rule of eve blah blah blah....

BUT... aside from teh 3 things that you kick yourself over (ie. anger, sadness and what if) - what do you learn from the loss? - think about that, turn the negative into something positive and develop from it.

For me - I used to be the same - i would rip myself to pieces trying to understand the whys and hows - and then i got to the stage where i realised - it's a game - it's meant to be fun - and just so long as i kill more ships than i lose, i am doing alright.

The game changed for me when i adopted that mindset.

As an aside ref: iskies , set up some PI, you will easily net yourself 1bn or more per month just doing nothing - probably 30mins - 1hour per week maintenance. That will give you a decent income, to have fun with o7

A

At least I'm not the only one. In an historical perspective, at least.

set up some PI

I did try PI. I set up a little operation out of prying eyes (not in HS) where I did P1 which I then exported to Jita. However, I got way less than 1bn, I think I was around 300 mln, at most 500 mln... but I don't know if it was due to what I produced (Biocells, Construction Blocks, Rocket Fuel, Test Cultures), due to how much I produced, due to the state of market/the market itself, due to being P1 or due to some other factor I missed. By the research I did at the time, it looked P1 should work but it didn't.

FUN INC's avatar

It may just be locational then. One of my corp buddies does/did it in NPC null in a quiet area, and clone hops periodically to do the housekeeping - he uses public contracts to shift the outputs back and sell it. He was doing less than 1 hour a week and got 1bn per month.

PI and PVE stuff is well outside my knowledge base though - but I am sure there are other JA'ers who are way more up to speed on me than I am - they may possibly be able to help. Isk should not be a barrier to having fun, whilst I appreciate that to get to that stage it can be a grind, to me it is all about balance in getting there.

A

A PI bounty "PI: Portable Income or Pain Infinite - Tell us all your tips and tricks for the best PI results" would be useful XD

You hear this Alex Sinclair? 😝

Alex Sinclair's avatar

Loud and clear 🫡 Give me three weeks.

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